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Poster: robthewordsmith Date: Dec 4, 2006 6:52am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: The whole damn Dancinbears thing

So, right away let me say this is not an attack on anyone - whatever you might have gathered from the thread heading. I really don't know DancinBears - having had no discussion with her on here or any other forum - but I think it would be a fair assumption that she's a decent, living, breathing human being with as much passion and depth as the rest of us.

What I find transcendentally tedious is this whole 'oh wow look its a girl are we sexist no we're not well maybe you are asshole' nonsense that's been going on lately. Let's get this straightened out,eh? There have been men and women occupying the same space for, oh I dunno, quite a while now. Let's just be people together can't we? McGlone, with his heart in the right place, respects DB as a woman - I prefer to acknowledge her as another human being.

Frankly I could care less whether the people I exchange views with on the forum were male, female,transgendered, cross dressers, visiting dignitaries from the planet Zircon B or just products of my own fevered imagination. I could absolutely care less what you look like, how you dress or if you sleep in a coffin in your boxers/briefs/bikini bottoms (hello SpongeBob!) during the day. What I am interested in is what you think and what you say. And if you think what I say is the purest BS then I think you should say so.

So, as JohnnyOTS might say - that's my .02 worth. Spend it how you will.

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Poster: William Tell Date: Dec 4, 2006 11:10am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The whole damn Dancinbears thing

Not sure if this is the Max'n'est thing to do as far as a post for all posters above, but this one is...

I think that all of you, Dr, Robbie, especially Earl (all I ever said in my emails on forum behavior is summed up nicely by E) have your hearts in the right places, to use that phrase, and that this discussion has furthered us a bit in our efforts to refine our interactions so that no one gets their feelings hurt, which in the end, matters somewhat (at least I think most of us agree on that).

I will note that the sex thing is in part a continuation of the 'lets all be nice/get along' thread in a different theme (does sex/gender matter?). Those who like to know alot about other posters to understand their perspective better very well may benefit by knowing I am a man or a woman, not because it validates the opinion but because it gives it context (not absolutely, but similar to knowing I love the early era, etc, etc; it will matter to some of us, but not all of us--eg, Rob). It is not sexist unless the two participants mean it/take it that way; that is why you must know each other before you know if calling them 'sweetie' will be sexist (I have lots of friends that use that term with me and vice versa and there is no sexism involved, but it took years to get to this point with those people).

Anyhow, just some thoughts; think we are basically getting this all cleared up.

This post was modified by William Tell on 2006-12-04 19:10:57

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Poster: Earl B. Powell Date: Dec 4, 2006 12:16pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The whole damn Dancinbears thing

Willy...thanks for kind word. Like Rob, I don't have anything against a lively debate on the subject at hand and by no means advocate any kind of censorship. While the background of the poster is secondary, I agree that perspective has it's place.

I sat by the other evening when the girl/boy bait-a-thon was underway just knowing that the board was "flirting with disaster" and sure enough, here we are. With that said, I think we, as a group, have a tendency to poke and prod until we get a reaction. Kind of a poor principle, usually resulting in an apology.



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Poster: robthewordsmith Date: Dec 4, 2006 11:11am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The whole damn Dancinbears thing

Thank you, William - I appreciate your input which is thoughtful as always. One thing I'd like to put straight is that I'm not part of the 'let's be nice/let's all get along' tendency. I'm not about pulling anyone's fangs (reading this Mr Wolf?). Basically my position is that you shouldn't think about agreeing or disagreeing with someone because they're a woman, or a guy with a a busted leg, or a dwarf or a transvestite, or even a Scotsman. Agree or disagree because of what was said - not because of who said it.

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Poster: William Tell Date: Dec 4, 2006 11:41am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The whole damn Dancinbears thing

Yes--I see your point, and that is pretty much my take too, but some folks really do understand one another better if they 'know where the other one is coming from' (ie, my sex, my climate, my whatever).

Good original post, and I hope folks take heart.

Say, are you basically eight hrs 'ahead' of us? Visited London this past fall and it was amazing; pubs, museums (everybody else's stuff!), history, etc.

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Poster: robthewordsmith Date: Dec 4, 2006 11:56am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The whole damn Dancinbears thing

William - I'm five hours ahead of the east coast and eight hours ahead of the west coast - where are you?

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Poster: William Tell Date: Dec 4, 2006 12:18pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The whole damn Dancinbears thing

Hey--just why do you want to know? Are you compiling, profiling and otherwise planning to abuse this gem of information if I provide it? I thought we decided I am to be anonymous.

Seriously, though; out west in 'mtn time' so 7 hrs behind you. Loved most all of London, and the people, especially the beer and the food (even). Now, you are to the north, in Scotland, if I recall? I must say that as a good Irish member of the world wide drinking club, some good Irish whiskey (even if not up to the standard you all were speaking of recently) is quite fine; more to my liking than scotch...

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Poster: robthewordsmith Date: Dec 4, 2006 12:30pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The whole damn Dancinbears thing

Ahhh.. now then Mr Tell - I originate from Scotland but I'm currently in England and I'm quite partial to a drop of the good stuff such as a Jamiesons or a Powers from Ireland. At one time I worked near an excellent pub where Patrick the Irish landlord would make frequent trips to the home country and come back with a supply of poteen for the regulars. It was quite remarkable stuff - one of the smoothest drinks I ever had, but with quite a kick too!

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Poster: direwolf0701 Date: Dec 4, 2006 12:36pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The whole damn Dancinbears thing

can you explain to me the "real" difference between an something like a good irish whiskey and a good scotch - they at times seem similar although i've rarely had them side by side (sorry to sound like a total moron).

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Poster: Earl B. Powell Date: Dec 4, 2006 1:16pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The whole damn Dancinbears thing

Wiki Wiki Dire

Irish whiskey is a grain whiskey made in Ireland. There are several types of whiskey common to Ireland: Single Malt, Pure Pot Still and Blended Whiskey.

Note the difference in how the Irish spell "whiskey" (with an "e") and how the Scottish spell it—"whisky". There is no known reason, legal or otherwise why this difference exists.[citation needed]Peat is almost never used in the malting process, resulting in a whiskey with an arguably smoother, sweeter flavour. In most Irish whiskey, the smoky, earthy overtones of Scotch are absent. A notable exception to this is Connemara Peated Malt whiskey.

The word whiskey is an Anglicization of the Irish language term "uisce beatha" which translates as "water of life". Craythur is an Irish term for whiskey.

There are far fewer distilleries of Irish whiskey than there are distillers of Scotch. Economic difficulties in the last couple of centuries have led to great number of mergers and closures. Currently there are only three distilleries operating in Ireland (although each produces a number of different whiskeys): Midleton, Bushmills, and Cooley. Only Cooley's is Irish-owned.


More Irish Whiskeys
Irish whiskey comes in several forms. There is a single malt whiskey made from 100% malted barley distilled in a pot still, and a grain whiskey made from grains distilled in a column still. Grain whiskey is much lighter and more neutral in flavour than single malt and is almost never bottled as a single grain. It is instead used to blend with single malt to produce a lighter blended whiskey. Unique to Irish whiskey is pure pot still whiskey (100% barley, both malted and unmalted, distilled in a pot still). The "green" unmalted barley gives the pure pot still whiskey a spicy, uniquely Irish quality. Like single malt, pure pot still is sold as such or blended with grain whiskey. Usually no real distinction is made between whether a blended whiskey was made from single malt or pure pot still.

Irish whiskey is believed to be one of the earliest distilled beverages in Europe, dating to the mid-12th century (see Distilled beverage). The Old Bushmills Distillery lays claim to being the oldest licenced distillery in the world since gaining a licence from James I in 1608.

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Poster: direwolf0701 Date: Dec 4, 2006 1:30pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The whole damn Dancinbears thing

didn't think of good ol' Wiki :)

thanks for that man - good read!

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Poster: William Tell Date: Dec 4, 2006 1:29pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The whole damn Dancinbears thing

Thanks Earl; will forward to my kid (just 21; loves all things Irish). Not that I want him to necessarily drink like all his uncles, but...

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Poster: William Tell Date: Dec 4, 2006 12:47pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The whole damn Dancinbears thing

I cannot, but I think Rob can...? I do detect the hint of an iodine (don't hit me) like flavor--something a bit astringent (!?) in scotch, even the best, that doesn't sit well with me, but really good Jameson's (remember--Bushmills is made by, ahem, the 'other guys' and if you have to ask who the good guys and the bad guys are, don't because we don't want the forum to get REALLY ugly), especially the stuff for $40-60 a bottle at the local trendy shops is just outstanding.

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Poster: direwolf0701 Date: Dec 4, 2006 12:54pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The whole damn Dancinbears thing

i love them both, but no one has ever been able to explain the difference to me. rob????????

this may remain a mystery!! maybe it is better that way?

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Poster: Earl B. Powell Date: Dec 4, 2006 12:56pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The whole damn Dancinbears thing

Yup, and if you want to avoid starting a whole new "hater" thread, give the right Irishman the wrong color whiskey. Bushmills is the orange while Jameson is the "green."

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Poster: direwolf0701 Date: Dec 4, 2006 1:01pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The whole damn Dancinbears thing

no kiddin huh??

thankfully i leave my irish politics out of my whiskey choices - i like both of them :)

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Poster: johnnyonthespot Date: Dec 4, 2006 11:10am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The whole damn Dancinbears thing

Yeah rob, I'm with you. I really don't see the need to dwell on the gender of someone here. I certainly don't understand how her question generated so much controversy. So what if people make small talk? If someone doesn't like it they don't have to talk. I really don't see why such a BIG deal was made out of nothing.

Oh and I don't know why I feel the need to state my position but I guess I'm that way - I respect women, men, kids, hell all living creatures, on an idividual basis. I believe everyone and everything should be treated respectfully. I don't consider myself a sexist NOR do I consider myself a femanist ( the whole thing that has become makes me cringe ). To be honest I see the need for activism to right wrongs in society but people that are so active they need to label themselves end up being intollerant militant jerks imo regardless of their cause. I could name a lot of causes I technically support but can't stand the people that fight them.

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Poster: robthewordsmith Date: Dec 4, 2006 11:24am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The whole damn Dancinbears thing

Johnny - got to agree with you on so many points there. Love the cause - can't stand the holier than thou, politically correct, sour-faced activists - yes, I've been there too.

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Poster: johnnyonthespot Date: Dec 4, 2006 11:36am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The whole damn Dancinbears thing

A couple of the biggest turn offs to me are hypocrites and the holier than thou types.

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Poster: Arbuthnot Date: Dec 4, 2006 4:33pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The whole damn Dancinbears thing

"holier than thou types"

i say burn 'em at the stake

[and yet, you have little or no idea from reading what i wrote, just how i mean that statement. language, as more than one 'thinker' has said, is an imperfect medium for conveying meaning. the receiver can never receive what the teller says with anything approaching 100% understanding. and in a forum like we have here, shit, i'd hardly give it 40%.]

[oh and that reminds, i hope i never see anyone refer to the GD as 'the boys' again ... horribly sexist]

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Poster: johnnyonthespot Date: Dec 4, 2006 4:42pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The whole damn Dancinbears thing

Did I miss something? Or did I say something you took the wrong way? Hope not. Hey, you have some CD's on their way to you. I'm looking forward to hearing your thoughts.

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Poster: Arbuthnot Date: Dec 4, 2006 4:57pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The whole damn Dancinbears thing

no, not at all johnny ... sorry, just used your post to make a point, but def. nothing directed at you. and oddly enough, your reply proves my point ... that it is often very difficult, often impossible, to completely 'read' the intent of the writer.

oh, and meant to get back to you via e-mail last night in reply to your own, but it slipped my mind. and so, thank you very much for the disks you are sending. i am def. looking forward to them. and just so you can keep a look out, i have sent some disks your way as well. i hope it gets there as i got a bit over ambitious and threw in a couple of other shows apart from the Hunter & Rowan that you asked about.

stay cool man ... oh yeah, i loved reading your posts yesterday on Garcia/Bobby/Brent/Godchaux (can't recall the name of the thread, but i think it was started by Max). learned some stuff from you, so thanks are def. in order.

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Poster: SDH2O Date: Dec 4, 2006 7:01am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The whole damn Dancinbears thing

Here, here my good man. I'm in compelte agreement with you. Just like all of us have agreed on in the past that a true Head can be of any race, creed, color, background, age, experience, preferred breakfast cereal, etc. Likewise, this whole fascination with gender (or lack thereof) is a little bizarre. I vote we stop focusing so much on whether or not we have ovaries and just focus on the person, not the genitalia. Hey, Dire, I've said it before, my eyes are up here.

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Poster: direwolf0701 Date: Dec 4, 2006 8:27am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The whole damn Dancinbears thing

DAMN!! you caught me looking again (i need to practise my shifting glance better)

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Poster: BryanE Date: Dec 4, 2006 8:50am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The whole damn Dancinbears thing

It should be noted that the visiting dignitaries from Planet Zircon B have never actually been recognized for being very dignified.

It's kind of a backward planet.

What can you do?

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Poster: robthewordsmith Date: Dec 4, 2006 9:07am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The whole damn Dancinbears thing

Oh you are so right. Damn BabelFish spellcheck! - I meant Zarcon B of course!

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Poster: orchiddoctor Date: Dec 4, 2006 8:22am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The whole damn Dancinbears thing

Well. shut my mouth and slap me silly.

I agree wholeheartedly that men and women are and should be treated as equals. But, mes cher amis, you are posting ad finitum about one of the must sexually hypocritical bands in history. I write this as I listen to Pig Pen singing "The Rub." "Two old ladies sittin' on the sand, each one wishin' that other was a man." How sweet.

Old ladies, chicks, groupies, how many did Bobby screw when and where? Women in the dead hierarchy are treated as baggage. It's wrong, but they are. "Hey now, any Sugar Magnolias want to . . . . " And Pig doing his match making gig during "Lovelight," or discussing cheap whores.

Sorry, but you can't suddenly pretend that you are squealy clean feminists while you are listening to the Dead. Even the introduction of Donna failed to change anything, and boys, you sure do like to take shots at her.

What is my point, exactly? Men are creeps? Sexist pigs? No--but sometimes we live in a bubble where love is equated with chauvenistic patronizing. It sounds cool to say "old lady" or "rider" (think about that--rider? "Jump in the saddle and ride"?). Yeah, we love the edge, the slyness, and dead women seem to at least put up with it.

Are we (mendeadheads) evil? No. No one means ill. But in world of Grateful sexism, how can me tell the dancer from the dance?

Beats me.

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Poster: robthewordsmith Date: Dec 4, 2006 8:48am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The whole damn Dancinbears thing

I have no wish that you should shut your mouth. However, I think you're being a little disingenous. Basically there aren't many people walking around who wouldn't reveal some basic flaws if you peeled away the surface layer - and that surely includes me. Frankly I couldn't give a flying hump at a rolling doughnut if members of the Grateful Dead were sexually hypocritical or not -as far as I'm aware it had no bearing on their ability to make music nor on mine to enjoy it. If you want to excise everyone who has what you see as distasteful personal habits from the arts you won't have much to watch, listen to or read. My point is not to be a 'squeaky clean feminist' - my point is not to treat people differently because of what they are.

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Poster: orchiddoctor Date: Dec 4, 2006 9:06am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The whole damn Dancinbears thing

Ummmm . . . I sought neither to attack nor condemn anyone. Note that as I wrote my post, I was listening to Pig Pen. All I sought to do is put some context on the whole thing. I'm not saying you shouldn't enjoy this or that piece of art because the artist was a child molester. God--if I felt that the dead's sexual ethos was a planetary threat, I wouldn't listen to them, nor would I post here. Instead, I'd probably be genuflecting in some far away Church.

All I wanted to point out is that a bit of sexism is to be expected in this arena. I believe than Dancinbears already pointed that out. All I'm suggesting is that, in response to her very valid post, that we pause, take a breath, examine the roots of the band we like so much, and try to understand the subtext of the whole shebang (no pun intended). Then we can remember where to draw the line.

Damn--I wish Pig had hooked me up during one of those Lovelights. I respect fully Dancingbear's personal integrity and her request for a little respect. I also respect your response, though I think you misunderstood my intent. But I also feel it important to acknowledge that, as Joe Strummer once put it, "He who fucks nuns will later join the church." (I always liked that line and wanted to steal it).

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Poster: robthewordsmith Date: Dec 4, 2006 9:23am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The whole damn Dancinbears thing

Ok - sorry if I flew off the handle at you, orchiddoctor. Of course you're right in that context is everything - and I was trying to speak within the context of what I saw going on in the forum. I agree also that maybe we ought to pause and draw breath before we sound off but I don't think its necessary to examine the roots of the Dead for primary cause. Better that we just examine ourselves and take responsibility for what we do. As has been demonstrated time and again on this forum the Dead is just a starting point and a common draw for a bunch of very varied, thoughtful and thought-provoking individuals.

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Poster: orchiddoctor Date: Dec 4, 2006 10:30am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The whole damn Dancinbears thing

"Better that we just examine ourselves and take responsibility for what we do."


Exactly. I love hearing about the Pig's prowling ways, but they are not mine.

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Poster: Dancinbears Date: Dec 4, 2006 10:06pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The whole damn Dancinbears thing

I wanted to leave this alone, and I knew you would work it out yourselves. I'm glad there are no hard feelings with anyone. however, I do want to offer up an appology. It's very late at nite, and this thread is pretty far down, so only those looking for this may find it... but what's happened in the past few days was never my intentions. I hope you are all getting a chance to know me a little to believe it when I say I'm sorry for having caused any trouble. I was telling the truth when I wrote that you are all a lot of fun and I am learning a 'grate' deal from you. thank you for that.

This post was modified by Dancinbears on 2006-12-05 06:06:38

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Poster: cush11 Date: Dec 4, 2006 10:47pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The whole damn Dancinbears thing

;)

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Poster: mcglone Date: Dec 4, 2006 7:05am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The whole damn Dancinbears thing

hey rob,

hope all's well on the sauchiehall side of the street.

i gave some thought between typing fellow human & individual... drew the short straw. i knew i would get called on it too.

i hear you and you're right.

thanks for summing up what i couldn't.

ian

This post was modified by mcglone on 2006-12-04 15:05:19

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Poster: robthewordsmith Date: Dec 4, 2006 7:07am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The whole damn Dancinbears thing

Hey Ian,

I'm doing fine - hope you are too. I'm not calling you on anything, friend. Like I said - you have your heart in the right place.

Are you having Christmas in Canada? I spent Christmas in BC a few years back and it was without a doubt the best one I ever had.

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Poster: mcglone Date: Dec 4, 2006 7:12am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The whole damn Dancinbears thing

i burning the candle rob, burning the candle.

christmas in toronto this year. double whammy! i'm full country mouse now. don't care much for the big smoke anymore. i'm not quite alister sims, but boy, when the tinsel and carols start prior to halloween it's hard to grumble baa humbug ebery now and again.

i lived in lionsbay bc (sea to sky hwy) and prince george bc (central interior). what part of the provence did you celebrate in?

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Poster: robthewordsmith Date: Dec 4, 2006 7:23am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The whole damn Dancinbears thing

Vancouver and Kitimat pre Christmas, in the mountains at Smithers (the Bulkleys?) for Christmas and down in the Okanagan for new year. Wonderful time.

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Poster: mcglone Date: Dec 4, 2006 7:25am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The whole damn Dancinbears thing

the buckley valley, nice! i'm sure you had a white christmas. you must have had the pleasure of driving through p.g. on your way to smithers?

i wish i had a little more time, but the day is calling.

always enjoy your imput on the forum.

ian

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Poster: SDH2O Date: Dec 4, 2006 7:32am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The whole damn Dancinbears thing

Mont Tremblant in February. Cold? Yes. Amazing? Oh, Yes.

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Poster: Earl B. Powell Date: Dec 4, 2006 8:03am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The whole damn Dancinbears thing

Say what you mean, mean what you say, do it politely, and there should be no need for apology.

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Poster: robthewordsmith Date: Dec 4, 2006 8:21am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The whole damn Dancinbears thing

I believe I did - and I don't.

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Poster: Earl B. Powell Date: Dec 4, 2006 8:32am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The whole damn Dancinbears thing

Rob...not you. Just pointing out that so much time is devoted to backtracking over old ground because someone misinterpreted some kind of cryptic post that was more to do with innuenedo than coming right out and saying what was on their mind.

This isn't a damn literary guild, how hard is it to convey a point with clarity? I for one, am not grading on grammar or composition....or even spellink.

Say it loud, say it proud and don't have the need to apologize.

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Poster: robthewordsmith Date: Dec 4, 2006 9:11am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The whole damn Dancinbears thing

Thanks for the clarification, Earl.Sometimes it can be damned hard to make your point clearly - you never know how receptive people are going to be to what you have to say. Are they in the mood to take you seriously, to poke fun, to take offence? No reason not to say it though.